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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Studios and CoO
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Kishiro and I have a difference of opinion as to how to profile studios and CoO for "So Sweet... So Perverse" in the Lenzi/Baker boxset. I would like to hear what others think.

I chose to profile it strictly based on the credits. There are only two companies credited; Variety Film as theatrical distributor and Tritone Filmindustria as production studio. I have entered only those two, and since they are both Italian companies I have only Italy as Country of Origin.

Kishiro, on the other hand, bases his profile on a poster, and on his general knowledge of the film, and has entered Tritone Filmindustria (Italy), Cedic (France) and Rapid Film (Germany) (and has left out Variety Film), and has Italy, France and Germany as CoO.

I don't dispute that the details that Kishiro mentions are correct, however I maintain that we profile the movie as is. We don't enter uncredited studios (unless they are mentioned in the credit block or elsewhere on the cover).

I base my opinion on two statements in the rules.
1) The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself.
2) [For CoO] Enter the country or countries in which the main feature's production company/companies are based, in the order they appear in the credits.

Kishiro's argument is basically this:
- The intention of rules are that the information supplied to the database are relevant and factually accurate.

Opinions anyone?
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Kishiro's argument is basically this:
- The intention of rules are that the information supplied to the database are relevant and factually accurate.

Opinions anyone?

I have always said that what is important is to get correct data. Credits and dvd covers are full of errors, and even if rules ask to reproduce spelling mistakes or wrong data (even an overview that describes another movie), I find it totally stupid. The result is an online database that is totally unusable, with actors who are not linked, or are linked and should'nt.

I think we have now two types of users:
- people who do not care about correct data. They contribute and probably do not use the program functions (or they get wrong results).
- people who want to use program functions (linking, sorting, filtering, searching...) to get correct results. Those people do not contribute anymore, and never use online invelos data.
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 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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I agree with GSyren that the film is the sole source for release studio/production company information, as per the rules, but since IMDB lists those companies mentioned by Kishiro as production companies, can you double-check the end credits to the very end (including copyright info) and rule them out?

Also, my understanding is we don't use theatrical release companies for CoO, unless they were also a production company.
 Last edited: by ObiKen
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
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Well, with all due respect surfeur51, there might be other types of users. I am always totally in awe of the passion of this community for getting things right. And in cases like this, there is not always agreement on what is right. I don't think it is fair to bash another user who has the same passion, if they have a different point of view on what is right.

And users like myself, who don't make contributions (the majority of users don't I think), maybe we are lazy, or maybe we lack the patience or expertise.

Personally, I try to contribute in other ways. But even the users that don't contribute or use the Forums, appreciate and benefit from the best database.

So keep up the good work, and don't for a minute think that people don't enjoy the correct details just because they don't contribute!
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 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorEagle
Registered: Oct 31, 2001
Registered: March 15, 2007
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I'll preface this by saying my knowledge of international films like this one is spotty at best. Having said that, I would think it strange for a production company of a given film to not be listed anywhere within the credits of said film. If those extra production companies truly are nowhere in the credits, I would be inclined to leave them off. I may consider adding them if a reliable source could be found to verify they were indeed involved in the production of the film...IMDB is not a reliable source. This is my two cents.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,463
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Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
And users like myself, who don't make contributions (the majority of users don't I think), maybe we are lazy, or maybe we lack the patience or expertise.

Well, I'm not sure you understood what I meant. Im my opinion, many users stopped contributing because rules ask us to enter wrong data. As for me, I contributed many times in the early days of Invelos, and stopped when we had to introduce spelling mistakes in actors' names.

My opinion is that the online database is a mess full of errors, not because contributors made a bad job, but because they followed rules that ask us not to correct errors, or even, sometimes, ask us to add errors.

I totally agre with Kishiro's argument that the information supplied to the database should be relevant and factually accurate, but rules do not consider this is important and prefer to recopy stupidly any error in covers or credits.

With those errors, results of searching are not correct :
- With correct data, I have 23 movies with François Berléand in my collection.
- With Invelos data, I have 2 movies with François Berléand, 15 movies with Francois Berleand, and 6 movies with François Berleand
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 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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Registered: March 18, 2007
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Ah hah! Now I got it. Old 'Dogg bites too soon as usual. 
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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The online database belongs to Invelos, so Invelos gets to decide what data goes into the database. It's not up to us users to decide to override Invelos' decision because we feel that our way is better.

Contributing is optional. Those who don't agree with the rules can chose not to contribute. But they shouldn't tell others to ignore the rules when contributing. That's how I see it.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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Oh boy, I'm way out on a limb here ...

But based on the discussion, my opinion would be to lean towards the Invelos rules. Not for any philosophical reason, but for a practical one. If the rule is "copy exactly what you see," then the determination of what is right or wrong to be in the profile is clear. No need to ask any opinion, or make someone justify the difference. If an actor trusted that to be the case, he(she) could even use that information in a legal proceeding to reconcile a royalty dispute. But if anybody could just change the reading of the credits to suit their own view of correctness (regardless of whether it is actually correct), then you basically erode the standard of reference.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
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Side note: there are a few plugins that allow you to define and maintain custom fields ("Real Name"?). Custom fields can be filtered and used in HTML sections like regular fields, and are saved and restored with the database. Just not contributed. Advantage is that if someday in the future (ha!!), that field becomes supported by the main program, a simple tool can be generated to copy the data over to the supported field. Not intending to hijack the thread. No soapbox. Just an FYI.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
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Back on topic: I see some space for interpretion for media companies (especially because they are locality dependent), but according to the rules and the fact that contributed data has to be controllable, I can't imagine a valid studio credit without any justification in the credits of the movie.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Opinions anyone?

I certainly wouldn't remove the "theatrical release studio" to make room for a third production company, since the rules explicitly state that the release studio has priority over the production companies.

Quote:
List the Studios in the following priority.

Theatrical Release Studio(s)
Production Company(s)

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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When it comes to contributions to the Invelos database, Invelos rules apply. Whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant. Whether the information is factually wrong or not is irrelevant, as long as Invelos rules are met.

Hence I agree with Gunnar’s initial stance. Only credited production companies are decisive for CoO. Theatrical release studios don’t count.

I also agree with Yves’ position that if you want accurate information, you cannot rely on the Invelos database.
 Last edited: by dee1959jay
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
Only credited production companies are decisive for CoO. Theatrical release studios don’t count.

This, indeed. And the production companies listed, and their respective CoO's, should be the ones found in the actual film credits on the disc - *not* any additional ones that may be found on a poster or anywhere else. Only the companies that appear in the actual credits on the actual disc you're profiling qualify.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
Only credited production companies are decisive for CoO. Theatrical release studios don’t count.

This, indeed.

Fine, but that wasn't the question.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantBig Al
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Registered: March 18, 2007
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the film in question is an Italian / French and West German co production, so those studios would be correct.
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