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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 6 7 8 9 10 ...13  Previous   Next
Rules Revision Request
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
I like IMDB
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 3,321
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Quoting mdnitoil:
Quote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the person most likely to submit incomplete credits is also the person least likely to cap that off with some sort of special marker.  I'm just sayin'.


That's a great point.  But it would be better to have 5% putting an indicator in than no one at all.

Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Spunds like the old Group W attempt, Mark.

Skip


Wow!  That brings back some memories.    
Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Believe it or not, Mark, I have run across a couple of the old Group W entries within the last few weeks.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpauls42
Reg: 31/01/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 2,692
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Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
I'm puzzled.  How would anyone know whether or not a contribution's case/crew list is "incomplete?"  When I go to the database and look at contributions for titles I have in my collection, all I see is the existing online profile on the left side of the page and the contribution on the right side.  If there are fewer names in the contribution than in the existing profile -- and there's nothing in the notes to indicate that people in the existing profile don't belong there, I would assume that the contribution is "incomplete."  But if there are more names in the contribution than in the existing profile, how do I know that some are still missing?  By checking my local database, perhaps?  Rather than vote No to the contribution if I know my local list is more correct, I should contribute it myself.

I'm also puzzled to consider how the screeners are supposed to know "incomplete" data (especially cast/crew).  I'm sure they don't have all the titles that people contribute, so they can only go by what is in the existing database and in the contribution.

This discussion has gone on for a long time about what should be in the rules and what shouldn't.  But IMO if I'm not satisfied that either what's in the online profile -- or in another user's contribution -- is lacking I should take some positive action and contribute the CORRECT data myself, rather than vote no and then sit back and wait for someone else to do it.  It's one thing to vote against overwriting GOOD data with BAD data.  It's a totally different thing to vote against adding good data to a profile even though it's not totally complete.


I agree - and a much better question is how you know if a cast list is complete.

I see a profile contribution with a list of cast - it isn't possible to know either way - until another contribution appears which includes more - and at that point you know that the previous contribution was incomplete.

And personally I prefer any cast list to none at all.
Paul
 Last edited: by pauls42
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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The Rules don't provide for that judgement call, pauls. I have seen numerous users get support for sneaking in IMDb data, sometimes successfully, by other users using precisely that argument. That does nothing but cause more work since the entire list likely will have to be redone by somebody. Something is NOT better than nothing when that something violates the Rules.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpauls42
Reg: 31/01/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 2,692
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
The Rules don't provide for that judgement call, pauls. I have seen numerous users get support for sneaking in IMDb data, sometimes successfully, by other users using precisely that argument. That does nothing but cause more work since the entire list likely will have to be redone by somebody. Something is NOT better than nothing when that something violates the Rules.

Skip


But including IMDB data should still be excluded since all data (even if only a single episode of a TV series) must come from the disc.

And my point was that you can never be sure when any contributed cast list is complete.
Paul
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
The Rules don't provide for that judgement call, pauls. I have seen numerous users get support for sneaking in IMDb data, sometimes successfully, by other users using precisely that argument. That does nothing but cause more work since the entire list likely will have to be redone by somebody. Something is NOT better than nothing when that something violates the Rules.

Skip


Correct, but IMDb has nothing to do with what Paul was saying and with what this thread is about.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantsmeehrrr
Registered: March 26, 2007
Posts: 196
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Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
I think my point about it not being a new policy is being misunderstood. I have accepted partial contributions in the past. Therefore even today, you can't look at a profile and assume if it has at least one actor the cast list is complete or there is something in the overview so it must be complete. Therefore adding it to the rules isn't going to automatically increase the amount of work that you have to put into doing a profile, it is the same work that has to be put it in today.

I would also say that I don't think adding some of the overview is a good idea (personally), but I also don't want the rules on this to become too cumbersome. I have a very different poiint of view on the topic being the screener, so I am looking for honest opinions from the contributors' side.

I think at some point we have to recognize that there is a sizeable group of people here that require a level of detail in the rules that isn't present and would almost certainly seem "cumbersome" to you and many others.  Check just about any thread on this forum and you'll see people dissecting the language of the rules to make some tortured decision on the finer points of punctuation or typography or whether or not "Bonham Carter" is a last name or what have you.

In point of fact, and this was made very clear in this thread, the rules aren't really rules at all.  They are simply a set of suggestions to ensure that your contribution is more likely to be accepted by the screeners than not.  Calling them rules leads to this slavish obedience to the letter of the law over simple common sense and a desire to increase the value of the database.  So, how about we go back to calling them guidelines, since that's what they really are?  Failing that, how about a statement of intent at the beginning of the rules, sort of a preamble indicating the reasoning for having this document at all and what the ultimate goal is?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor?
?
Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 3,830
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the moment the guidelines changed to rules they stopped being only suggestions! The rules are there to follow when you contribute. They allow you to enter your DVD's to the online upon the specifications layed down by Invelos. nothing more nothing less.
from the rules:
Quote:
As part of our ongoing quest to maintain, improve and refine our DVD database, we have created these rules. These rules apply to online contributions. You can use DVD Profiler locally, or you can contribute to the main online database, or you can do both. If you want to contribute to the online database, the rules tell you how to complete each DVD Profiler field.
Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions.
 Last edited: by ?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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They are Rules and not suggestions. They are also NOT guidelines, we had Guidelines and it was a total disaster. The database was a mess with users constantly trying to manipulate the data to suit themselves without regard to the wider community, and if someone said anything the stock answer from many users (including some still present today) was "they are Guidelines and guidelines don't HAVE to be followed". Hence they became Rules and they HAVE to be followed

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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Quoting smeehrrr:
Quote:
In point of fact, and this was made very clear in this thread, the rules aren't really rules at all.  They are simply a set of suggestions to ensure that your contribution is more likely to be accepted by the screeners than not.  Calling them rules leads to this slavish obedience to the letter of the law over simple common sense and a desire to increase the value of the database.  So, how about we go back to calling them guidelines, since that's what they really are?  Failing that, how about a statement of intent at the beginning of the rules, sort of a preamble indicating the reasoning for having this document at all and what the ultimate goal is?

I couldn't agree more. It is my believe that with the current voting and reputation system every strange opinion would be "automatically" filtered out. The fact that the rules are to difficult to understand for most of the non-English speaking users is far greater than most of us think and only prevents that group from contributing.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
 Last edited: by Daddy DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantW0m6at
You're in for it now Tony
Registered: April 17, 2007
Australia Posts: 1,091
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Quoting Martin_Zuidervliet:
Quote:
The fact that the rules are to difficult to understand for most of the non-English speaking users is far greater than most of us think and only prevents that group from contributing.

...and for many of the English speaking users too!
Adelaide Movie Buffs (info on special screenings, contests, bargains, etc. relevant to Adelaideans... and contests/bargains for other Aussies too!)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 6,018
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This applies not just to the rules but also to the way contribution notes have to be written to get your contributions accepted. This is a major stumbling block for non-English speakers, as has been discussed here.

However, unlike smeehrrr, I don't think turning the rules back into guidelines is the answer. I think non-English speakers would be best served by not just having translations of the program but also of the Contribution Rules AND some form of guidance in languages other than English on how to write contribution notes.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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If anybody remembers how the old guidelines
changed to the old rules
into the current rules,
one could understand why we have this status quo today.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,394
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
This applies not just to the rules but also to the way contribution notes have to be written to get your contributions accepted. This is a major stumbling block for non-English speakers, as has been discussed here.

However, unlike smeehrrr, I don't think turning the rules back into guidelines is the answer. I think non-English speakers would be best served by not just having translations of the program but also of the Contribution Rules AND some form of guidance in languages other than English on how to write contribution notes.

I agree, Dee.  Since I am not really fluent in any language other than English (and if truth be told not very fluent in it either) I can't vouch for the Profiler user groups that exist (like the German one).  But I believe that what would be most beneficial would be for the non-English-fluent users to help one another through those groups.  I don't have any reason to frequent the TranslationS Forum, but that might be a place to provide assistance, too.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantsmeehrrr
Registered: March 26, 2007
Posts: 196
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Hence they became Rules and they HAVE to be followed

That is demonstrably not the case.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Well if people are having a problem with the English language, we certainly have no shortage of internationals who seem to be very fluent with their abilities to interpret them. Yes, I am being very flippant

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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