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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
Audio, subtitles, and features on dual format releases
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Registered: May 26, 2007
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Quoting AndyEN:
Quote:
It's often the case that when a combo such as Blu-ray and DVD ends up on the secondary market, the secondary disc is removed (likely sold separately in some cases)


When we end up with combos missing the DVD at our store, most of the time it's because the dvd was scratched beyond repair, so we just toss the DVD and sell the blu-ray in our cheap section.  The rest of the time it's because it came in without the DVD.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Registered: May 26, 2007
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I think the crux of the debate centers around which part of this rule you think is more important:

Emphasize this part:
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked.

And you fall under the "check all features for both discs in the main profile" group, because a normal profile for a movie would include all features on all discs, such as when a release has a separate disc for special features, not just the features on the disc with the movie.

Emphasize this part
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked.

And you fall under the "check only features on the superior format disc in the main profile" group, because what's important is that it's on the disc with the main media type.

Honestly, nary the twain shall meet.  Since Ken would be required to rule on which part of the rule is important, and this will never happen, it's Schrodinger's Rule - both and neither are true until the box can be opened, but unlike with the cat, this box can never be opened.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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My understanding is a "normal profile for the main media type" means the parent will include the features from the main media type as well as any discs of bonus material found in the combo set. The secondary media type is a main feature disc, not a bonus material disc.

The standard contribution rules cover features found on other discs, such as bonus feature films and bonus material only discs, there is no disagreement that those extra features go into the parent profile of the combo set. Those discs will be added in the disc info section of the parent with descriptions "Bonus Feature Film" and "Bonus Material" (as per rules).

A normal single film 2-Disc set is a single film disc accompanied by a bonus material disc.

The problem is, for a 4K/Blu-ray combo, the child Blu-ray disc is neither a bonus feature film disc nor a bonus material only disc, the Blu-ray's disc info section has the description "Main Feature", so it is not a bonus material disc.

What we are discussing in this topic is how do we configure two movie discs in a set where the movie is the same on both discs.

The audio tracks, subtitles and features found on each movie disc are glued to their respective disc because the disc features rule specifies the features on the movie disc are linked to the main feature on the movie disc and the audio tracks are listed as encoded on the movie disc.

I see no ambiguity in the combo set rule.

When I construct a combo set, I configure the main media type disc and any bonus material discs, as per normal profile rules, and [optionally] add a child profile for the secondary media type disc using standard contribution rules.
 Last edited: by ObiKen
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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There is a complication that I don't think has been addressed yet.

In a 4K/Bluray combo, the 4K disc is (or at least is supposed to be) region free. The bluray disc, however, may very well be region coded. Thus adding bluray features to the 4K profile suggests that they are region free, which may not be the case.

Therefore it makes sense to keep the bluray data on the bluray profile only.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
There is a complication that I don't think has been addressed yet.

In a 4K/Bluray combo, the 4K disc is (or at least is supposed to be) region free. The bluray disc, however, may very well be region coded. Thus adding bluray features to the 4K profile suggests that they are region free, which may not be the case.

Therefore it makes sense to keep the bluray data on the bluray profile only.


Excellent point
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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Quoting primetime21:
Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
There is a complication that I don't think has been addressed yet.

In a 4K/Bluray combo, the 4K disc is (or at least is supposed to be) region free. The bluray disc, however, may very well be region coded. Thus adding bluray features to the 4K profile suggests that they are region free, which may not be the case.

Therefore it makes sense to keep the bluray data on the bluray profile only.


Excellent point

And don't forget to mention what happens in a Blu-ray/DVD combo set, you cannot add the DVD's region code into the parent Blu-ray profile!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
Registered: March 24, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
There is a complication that I don't think has been addressed yet.

In a 4K/Bluray combo, the 4K disc is (or at least is supposed to be) region free. The bluray disc, however, may very well be region coded. Thus adding bluray features to the 4K profile suggests that they are region free, which may not be the case.

Therefore it makes sense to keep the bluray data on the bluray profile only.

This is very important and goes back to my argument for each profile to be reflective of the features and audio/subtitles on that disc.

It seems absurd to have a region free 4K Ultra HD profile with featurettes, commentary, and interviews when these are all on what could/should be the region coded Blu-ray child profile.

I understand this will make the main profile look pretty barebones but, if you add both discs to your collection, it should be easy to see where the features are and which disc has what audio options.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
I think the crux of the debate centers around which part of this rule you think is more important:

I have to disagree on this because it ignores the rest of the rule which, in my opinion, clarifies the issue.  That portion being:

A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile.

Replace 'HD-DVD' with '4K Ultra HD' and the rule, again in my opinion, becomes quite clear...you use the details from the 4k Ultra HD disc.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAndyEN
Registered: May 25, 2007
Posts: 126
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
Quoting AndyEN:
Quote:
It's often the case that when a combo such as Blu-ray and DVD ends up on the secondary market, the secondary disc is removed (likely sold separately in some cases)


When we end up with combos missing the DVD at our store, most of the time it's because the dvd was scratched beyond repair, so we just toss the DVD and sell the blu-ray in our cheap section.  The rest of the time it's because it came in without the DVD.


Slight tangent: I wasn't intending to slight video stores. Still, in one case I bought a Blu-ray and DVD of the same movie separately from a video store that was closing down. The DVD case had a colour photocopy of the same cover referring to a combo. It's entirely possible that what you describe is more the norm but at least in this instance double dipping did happen. I was getting a good rate due to the closing sale so I decided to buy both to put the set back together.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
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Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
Quoting ObiKen:
Quote:

There is no dilemma if you follow the combo set rules.
• The parent profile accurately conveys the information for the main feature on the primary media only.
• The child profile accurately conveys the information for the main feature on the secondary media only.
• If you don't like child profiles, add the child features to your local database and lock it (just don't contribute it).



This makes complete sense, thank you


It seems it's our yearly debate about this, where some people insist it states in the rules you put all the features on the parent disc, despite all of the evidence to the contrary as is expressed here.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like reason is followed as was stated so succinctly by ObiKen, and people vote their personal preference (whichever that may be) over the rules, or point to anecdotal evidence of a profile being approved, which makes no sense to me because profiles have been approved and denied each way.  If every profile approval was able to be claims as the basis for a rule, we would have no rules because everything would be contradicted.  Thus we should rely on the actual rules as written, which is clear, and not leaps of faith or suspect inferences.
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