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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Restoration Crew data |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,488 |
| | Posted: | | | | If you saw a 1991 print of My Fair Lady it would have made you physically ill. That title was, for two years in a row, was voted as the WORST LASERDISC EVER in Laserdisc Newsletters's annual consumer poll.
Along came a crew that took that film to new heights.. Then issuing a New dvd that you would be proud to own in your Invelos Profiler Library .
If the name Robert Harris doesn't pop up on search mode within Profiler, and why would it? He isn't an actor or at this point of the game a crew member either .
you'd have to resort to other Searchable Internet engines, and not all Profilers are linked to the Web at any given moment..
Consider it a blessing you could find that name Robert Harris and all the other works of movies he has done in the past and will do in the future, in your library, at a click of a mouse..
That is what make's Profiler just a little bit better .. . | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry | | | | Last edited: by widescreenforever |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting widescreenforever: Quote:
If you saw a 1991 print of My Fair Lady it would have made you physically ill. That title was, for two years in a row, was voted as the WORST LASERDISC EVER in Laserdisc Newsletters's annual consumer poll.
Along came a crew that took that film to new heights.. Then issuing a New dvd that you would be proud to own in your Invelos Profiler Library .
If the name Robert Harris doesn't pop up on search mode within Profiler, and why would it? He isn't an actor or at this point of the game a crew member either .
you'd have to resort to other Searchable Internet engines, and not all Profilers are linked to the Web at any given moment..
Consider it a blessing you could find that name Robert Harris and all the other works of movies he has done in the past and will do in the future, in your library, at a click of a mouse..
That is what make's Profiler just a little bit better .. . That's great. And when Profiler adds "Master Restorationist" to the list of available credits, I'll be happy to go hog wild and dump in any and everything that Robert Harris has worked on. In the meantime, though, he hasn't directed diddlysquat. Perhaps our flexible custom crew entries might be more appropriate here? I would also add that if you've read any of his posts on HTF, he would be stunned to discover that he might essentially share co-direction credit with George Cukor in the all-knowing Profiler database. It would certainly set us apart...making us a little bit better is somewhat questionable. | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,488 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
I would also add that if you've read any of his posts on HTF, he would be stunned to discover that he might essentially share co-direction credit with George Cukor in the all-knowing Profiler database. It would certainly set us apart...making us a little bit better is somewhat questionable. If you have been reading any of this post the entire restoration Credit Hinged on a SEPERATOR that bestowed his exact same credit he received for his work he directed the direction of the restoration.. <<shakes head>> sharing co-direction with George Cukor ? he would only be stunned in reading this here on your post ..  | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | After further thought, I agree with mdnitoil on this one. The fact that there is a divider doesn't change the fact that this guy isn't a director. Yes, he directed the restoration, but that isn't the same thing.
George Cukor is a Director, someone who supervises the actors and directs the action in the production of a show.
Robert Harris, while a director, isn't. He is the person in charge of managing a department. In this case, the restoration department.
Unfortunately, this is something that Ken or Gerri need to decide as I don't see opinions changing here. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting widescreenforever: Quote:
Quoting mdnitoil:
Quote:
I would also add that if you've read any of his posts on HTF, he would be stunned to discover that he might essentially share co-direction credit with George Cukor in the all-knowing Profiler database. It would certainly set us apart...making us a little bit better is somewhat questionable.
If you have been reading any of this post the entire restoration Credit Hinged on a SEPERATOR that bestowed his exact same credit he received for his work he directed the direction of the restoration.. <<shakes head>>
sharing co-direction with George Cukor ? he would only be stunned in reading this here on your post ..
While the seperator is cute and all, the bottom line here is that Profiler will be listing Mr. Harris as a director. It's not like there's going to be an asterix next to his name. In my opinion, while there is merit in somehow crediting Robert Harris for the amazing work he's done on this DVD, a custom credit is far more appropriate and would certainly more accurately capture his contribution rather than trying to push his square peg into the round "director" hole. | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
After further thought, I agree with mdnitoil on this one. The fact that there is a divider doesn't change the fact that this guy isn't a director. Yes, he directed the restoration, but that isn't the same thing.
George Cukor is a Director, someone who supervises the actors and directs the action in the production of a show.
Robert Harris, while a director, isn't. He is the person in charge of managing a department. In this case, the restoration department.
Unfortunately, this is something that Ken or Gerri need to decide as I don't see opinions changing here. Unfortunately I have to agree with you vis a vis Ken and gerri. I am not about to back down from not following the data and allowing users to create interptetations regardles of what the data says, for the reasons I have previously explained. The data is what it is, and I don't much care what someone believes it to be or not, it simply IS. And in this case it says Director. Wecan't play these kind of games where sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, first problem with thart is who decides when it or isn't.. Ace?...midnit...me? No thank you on all counts, follow the data PERIOD. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote:
Unfortunately I have to agree with you vis a vis Ken and gerri. I am not about to back down from not following the data and allowing users to create interptetations regardles of what the data says, for the reasons I have previously explained. The data is what it is, and I don't much care what someone believes it to be or not, it simply IS. And in this case it says Director. Wecan't play these kind of games where sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, first problem with thart is who decides when it or isn't.. Ace?...midnit...me? No thank you on all counts, follow the data PERIOD.
Skip But it isn't subjective. It's under a section for restoration credits. If there were a director credited for a film within-a-film, a location crew, a unit crew, etc, we wouldn't list any of those as director even though they are called such in the credits. It isn't difficult to tell from the credits who directed the movie itself (which we list) and who directed other stuff, which we don't. We make this distinct for every other job we list, I don't see why you support using different rules here. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Once again, as you are wont to do, Ace, you drag in stuff that has no relevance. You are correct about Unit Crew but we don't use Unit Crew. We DO allow Restoration Crew, that was decided a long time ago, and the credit says DIRECTOR therefore it is part of the restoration crew data. you keep drtagging stuff up that has no relevance or parallel to the issue at hand, perhaps it makes sense to you...
I guess you don't grok.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | So what you're saying here is that the roles that we have are merely labels without any real meaning, and our purpose is simply to spot them and blindly enter them into Profiler? That seems to be the crux of your argument.
Let me just add that I entirely get this concept for something like the Star Wars special editions. But then, these aren't restorations as they add completely new material.
After sleeping on this a bit, I'm starting to lean more towards not even bothering with restoration crew. The entire point of a restoration is to simply restore the film as close as possible to its original condition. As such, all the work put into it is simply to preserve the creative input of the original artists. When I think about it, even the sound mixers are only attempting to rebuild what has come before. They're not supposed to be adding anything new to the presentation, just simply following the roadmap laid out before them. All of the actual creative decisions were made way back when.
Just a different perspective. | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
After further thought, I agree with mdnitoil on this one. The fact that there is a divider doesn't change the fact that this guy isn't a director. Yes, he directed the restoration, but that isn't the same thing. How would it be, if we would enter the credits according to the function people are credited for and not according to the labels used? Someone brought up the term functional equivalents. I do like that term and use it ever since for that concept. I hope the rules will be changed into this direction sometimes.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | No thank you, Rho. You go use IMDb, there your strange ideas would work nicely.I am also not interested in your made up terms and roles. We use REAL data provided by people who actually made a movie. I believe someone explained the function of Mr. Harris quite nicely and very similar to the original director he exercises creative control over the final product, the only part he can't control are the performances. But there is far more to the job of the director than just the actors' performances. I can just imagine the mess the database would be with your made up data.  Scary thought. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote:
No thank you, Rho. You go use IMDb, there your strange ideas would work nicely.I am also not interested in your made up terms and roles. We use REAL data provided by people who actually made a movie. I believe someone explained the function of Mr. Harris quite nicely and very similar to the original director he exercises creative control over the final product, the only part he can't control are the performances. But there is far more to the job of the director than just the actors' performances.
I can just imagine the mess the database would be with your made up data. Scary thought.
Skip Well, if that's the case then it's no longer "My Fair Lady" as we understand it, but rather some hybrid. The whole point of restoration is to not exercise creative control, but rather to preserve the original presentation. It's more like following the instructions to rebuild the movie, the instructions being the product created by the actual filmmakers. If creativity enters into things, then we have a problem. Which brings us neatly back to the original argument. |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | This whole idea of adding a divider for another section of the credits has 0 support in the rules and we list credits or not depending on what section they are in all the time. I have yet to see a coherent explanation of how this is any different. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have the 2-Disc SE and this is the credit:  In what version is he credited as Director? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 413 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote:
No thank you, Rho. You go use IMDb, there your strange ideas would work nicely.I am also not interested in your made up terms and roles. We use REAL data provided by people who actually made a movie. I believe someone explained the function of Mr. Harris quite nicely and very similar to the original director he exercises creative control over the final product, the only part he can't control are the performances. But there is far more to the job of the director than just the actors' performances.
I can just imagine the mess the database would be with your made up data. Scary thought.
Skip I did not see anything about using IMDb data in RHo's message. How can it be made up data if you leave this questionnable "restoration director" out? |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
I have the 2-Disc SE and this is the credit:
In what version is he credited as Director? I haven't bothered to pull the disc yet, but it's the original single disc Warner release in the snapper. I seem to recall that between the releases, they went back and made more adjustments to the color correction, so it is possible that the credits had been adjusted. Edit: Just went through the trouble of shooting to the end credits to verify and darned if your screenshot isn't the exact same thing. All this angst over a bogus credit.  | | | | Last edited: by mdnitoil |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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