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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
Proudly blocked by liars.
Registered: August 23, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 1,656
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
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How would not allowing those that don't own a DVD bring contributions to a standstill?

Because it makes the whole process far to (needlessly) difficult. Let's say there's a common name-finding thread with a solid outcome, and I need to update that person's name in sixteen of my previously-audited profiles. Are you really suggesting that I put those sixteen discs in my DVD-ROM drive one by one just to be able to propagate a common name shift through my profiles? Or the addition of a birth year to all profiles with that particular actor in it? I'm sorry, but that's just not gonna happen.


I'm a jackass, T!M, I completely missed the quoted part of your post. Yes, I agree, that would hurt the process, you are correct. 

I see where Jimmy is coming from, though. It would be nice if the program could keep a record of who owned what via disc ID (say, by, putting the DVD in the drive once, and it maintains a record) and it's a great idea, but the problem with it is, as some have mentioned, what happens to those that don't have drives (or blu drives, even). It's just unfortunate that, while a solid idea, too many other factors make it difficult.

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But I still don't understand the fuss, so I'll repeat my earlier suggestion: let's just drop the nonsense and instead simply vote "yes" to good data, and "no" to bad data. How's that?


That's great, but I don't know how one would know what data is good and what data is bad without the DVD in hand. Sure there are a few things that can be voted on, but why not play it safe? Hell, I'll even go that if a little common sense is used, there would be more than a few things that could be voted on, but common sense is quite often lost in some of these threads, so you can't even use that.  
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,977
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting No_Name_Needed:
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Contributing on what you don't own is always bad data

Per Ken, it's not.

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The same way it is wrong to vote on dvd not owned.

Per Ken, it's not.

'Nuff said.

Sorry but you interpret it to please your ego... You can't contribute if you can't check on the disc it is as simple as that.

BTW stop thinking so highly of yourself, the database won't die without your faulty contributions...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,478
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
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But I still don't understand the fuss, so I'll repeat my earlier suggestion: let's just drop the nonsense and instead simply vote "yes" to good data, and "no" to bad data. How's that?

That's great, but I don't know how one would know what data is good and what data is bad without the DVD in hand.

Well, If I can't be sure, I vote neutral, but really: the difference between "good" and "bad" data is mostly pretty easy to spot. You should know: I'm sure you've voted on thousands of contributions. Surely you've found that just looking at the changes made and the accompanying notes, you almost instinctively know whether those changes are accurate or not? I can understand the problem if you're approaching this from the "everyone's guilty until proven innocent" approach, expecting all contribution notes to be blatant lies until proven otherwise, but that's not the way I approach the voting process.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,478
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Quoting No_Name_Needed:
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You can't contribute if you can't check on the disc it is as simple as that.

There again, like pompel9 a few pages ago, you're making a false statement. You're free to express your opinion, but you're stating something as if it's a fact, and it's not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

As for the rest: I'm sorry, but I won't sink to your level. You'll have to play by yourself. 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAlien Redrum
Proudly blocked by liars.
Registered: August 23, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
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Quoting T!M:
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
But I still don't understand the fuss, so I'll repeat my earlier suggestion: let's just drop the nonsense and instead simply vote "yes" to good data, and "no" to bad data. How's that?

That's great, but I don't know how one would know what data is good and what data is bad without the DVD in hand.

Well, If I can't be sure, I vote neutral, but really: the difference between "good" and "bad" data is mostly pretty easy to spot. You should know: I'm sure you've voted on thousands of contributions. Surely you've found that just looking at the changes made and the accompanying notes, you almost instinctively know whether those changes are accurate or not? I can understand the problem if you're approaching this from the "everyone's guilty until proven innocent" approach, expecting all contribution notes to be blatant lies until proven otherwise, but that's not the way I approach the voting process.


Oh, sure, I can definitely look at the changes and pretty much know. To be clear, I can see where people are coming from who support the vote-but-don't-own side, I just can't get behind it.

I think this started when I saw someone throw a temper tantrum because they submitted a cover scan of a DVD they didn't even own and it got voted down. That's just a waste of everyone's time.

Does it happen all the time? Probably not. Does it happen enough to be annoying. Yeah.

Am I going to lose sleep if this never changes. Pretty sure I'm not. 
Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com

"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,478
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Quoting Alien Redrum:
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I think this started when I saw someone throw a temper tantrum because they submitted a cover scan of a DVD they didn't even own and it got voted down. That's just a waste of everyone's time.

So the system worked as it's supposed to, right? It was "bad data", so it got voted down - as it should. If it had been a good scan (i.e. substantially better than what was there before), it should have been welcomed no matter where it came from, but if it's bad, it should be voted down. Since that happened, it seems the system worked perfectly. 

I can see how that was a waste of everyone's time, but so is the monthly attempt by new user after new user trying to add cast and crew data to my (empty) 'Indiana Jones' box set profile, often accompanied by some happy "wow, can't believe that nobody entered the cast and crew for this set yet" contribution notes. Like in your example, that's a waste of everyone's time, but in both cases, you would hope that after something like that is voted down five times, the contributor gets the message. I still say the system works as it should.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,977
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Quoting T!M:
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There again, like pompel9 a few pages ago, you're making a false statement.

Ken had never said that you can change a credit entry if you don't own a disc, so stop interpreting this statement in a wrong way to please your ego . Some thing can be contribute without the dvd when you can confirm it on the cover or the distributor website (for the pre-release) and this is what Ken had said.
Of course, I ain't surprise to see you take a phrase out of its context to mess the database...

Quoting T!M:
Quote:

As for the rest: I'm sorry, but I won't sink to your level. You'll have to play by yourself. 

Of course you will wait your next contribution note I will vote on to whine again.
Since I can be positive also, thanks for not sending me a PM has requested.

Edit : just saw that you have block my PM, I sure don't know why since I've never send you one (except one time to answer one of yours I think) and I sure don't intend to do it in the future

Quoting T!M:
Quote:

So the system worked as it's supposed to, right?

The system doesn't work as intended since some user get a free pass on their contributions.
 Last edited: by Jimmy S
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Actually Ken didn't put any restrictions on what can and can't be contributed if you don't own the disc. Just that it is allowed and to source the profile it came from.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
For better or for worse, we have never blocked users from contributing to profiles they don't own, nor have we blocked users from voting on contributions for profiles they don't own.  In point of fact, the practice of voting on contributions for profiles users don't own has been going on for many years.

In these cases, no, it is not likely that the users' wishlist contents is an accurate protrayal of their intent to purchase.  However it is also the case that these users are some of the most careful and accurate voters. 

Similarly, the users who take it upon themselves to improve profiles that are not in their collection are some of the most accurate contributors.

For these reasons, we have chosen not to block contributions or voting in these cases.  I'm happy to reconsider this policy if the community feels it is necessary.  However, be advised that if a change is made, it will prevent both contributing and voting, not one or the other.  This is something I have considered in the past and have developed a decently secure method of preventing extra-collection contribution/voting.  I would prefer not to implement this change as I still feel it would be detrimental to the overall database.

To recap:
- We do not (currently) prevent users from contributing or voting on profiles they don't own.
- If you are contributing to a profile that you don't own, our only requirement is that the notes submitted accurately reflect the source of the data, and state the specific profile used as the source.

Clear as mud?


I personally don't particularly agree with this stance. But I can't deny that at this time Ken does support it. So whether I like it or not... it is allowed 100% as is voting on profiles you don't own is allowed 100%.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,977
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Wich clearly prove that the DVDP database isn't more reliable than imdb to me.
Thanks Pete for giving me the proof that this database isn't trustworthy except for the cover scan.

Hope I won't read anymore that the DVDP database ­is superior to the IMDB database, since it isn't really the case at all.

The database will continue to be unreliable as long as a disc id detection system will be put in place to contribute... Untill this day we have a corrupted with bad information database.
 Last edited: by Jimmy S
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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I understand your frustration - but do you honestly think the disc detection system would improve things any? I see numerous times people who I know must own the disc still blindly voting yes to bad data.
I don't see proving you own the disc improving the quality of the database at all.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting No_Name_Needed:
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Hope I won't read anymore that the DVDP database ­is superior to the IMDB database, since it isn't really the case at all.

Not to worry: you won't hear me say that. I keep hoping it will be, one day, but as it stands, we're not there yet. The fact that a pretty large percentage of our database is still made up of IMDb-mined data, and more of it is still regularly getting in the database even now, is the first hurdle we need to tackle. And then IMDb has the wonderful thing that every person has a unique ID, while we have to work with ever-shifting common names and birth years (which we mostly can't find) to distinguish between people with the same names. That unique key is a pretty big plus for them...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
Canada Posts: 1,977
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Quoting northbloke:
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I understand your frustration - but do you honestly think the disc detection system would improve things any?

I was more thinking contribution, but if you use the same system for casting a vote I don't see how it could not work. If someone make the effort to take the disc and place it in his/her computer it isn't that much effort to check it actually.

As many others, I'm also guilty of blind vote sometimes but I do it when I trust an user completly

Quoting T!M:
Quote:
And then IMDb has the wonderful thing that every person has a unique ID (...). That unique key is a pretty big plus for them...

Agree with you 100% on this
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I for one never said DVDP's database was more accurate then IMDB... but I can say that for the titles that I own it definitely is. And I can say that I still have a bad dislike for IMDB.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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IMDb is a wonderful database. It serves a different purpose than profiler and has different rules. But concerning accuracy (according to their own rules), they are comparable.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpompel9
Registered: March 13, 2007
Norway Posts: 467
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Quoting surfeur51:
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Quoting pompel9:
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I wasn't talking directly to you, I used it as a broad term, as in all of us.

But if you are offended by the fact that I'm saying what I thinks should be done, then I will leave this forum again. Because I don't like to be attacked for saying what I think.

I really think that you should not quit and go non saying what you think. I too was attacked many times for giving my opinion, but that is the only way to show Ken that there is not only one way to see things. After that, he does what he wants, but he knows that there are different points of view.


Thanks for the support, but I am fed up by being attacked every time I post on this forum. I saw that moderation had come to this forum, and that is why I came back. But moderation haven't changed anything, so I'm going of the grid again.
If the forum gets better, I will come back. Because I love this software and are a collector of DVDs and Blue-rays. I want to contribute, and I do on a regular basis. But it's very hostile, and being attacked because I contribute to the database is bad.
For now i will suspend my contributions, and only do it localy.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I personally think you are being overly sensitive on this. I know I never attacked you for contributing to the database... and I never would. All I did was stand up for myself when being told I can't do something even though Ken himself supports it being done. And for the record I only vote on contributions I don't own when it is something that is obvious. And then it is because it is something I plan to get or already have ordered. But I'm not going to be made felt like a bad guy because I stood up for myself.

Someone mentioned that you meant differently then you said where English is not your first language. You never confirmed or denied this.... that I have seen. So I can only take it the way it reads.
Pete
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