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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6  Previous   Next
Spelling of cast/crew names
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
kdh1949 is absolutely right. All we have on the matter is a certain clarification from Gerri (link). We all know you don't agree with it, but there has been no statement from Ken or Gerri to say that the matter is under consideration.


I believe, and I could be wrong, he is refering to this thread that Gerri started.

While she is asking for some information, she says nothing about reversing her original clarification.  Until she does, I can't go against it.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Until she does, I can't go against it.

Me neither. Apparently though, Skip feels that he can.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Until she does, I can't go against it.

Me neither. Apparently though, Skip feels that he can.

And there's the problem.  Skip thinks because he was instrumental in writing the rules (and I certainly applaud him for doing so as in most cases they are well written and comprehensive) that gives him some special right to force his interpretation upon everyone else.  Unfortunately, his name isn't either Ken or Gerri and I don't recall ever seeing a statement from either of them that Skip is authorized to speak for Invelos.  Until such time as Skip becomes one of the principals of Invelos, his opinions are just that -- his opinions and they have no more validity or importance than anyone else's despite how much time and effort he has contributed.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
kdh1949 is absolutely right. All we have on the matter is a certain clarification from Gerri (link).

Says the man who recently removed the accent of the fully capitalized Spanish name Félix Castro from the cast lists of Pirates of the Caribbean.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
 Last edited: by Daddy DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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As he should have.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,281
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The rule covering capitalization is "Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead."  This rule does not have anything to do with accented characters.

The rules continue: "Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name."  If an actors name can be documented to include accented characters, the Credited As field should be used.

The rules continue: "To determine whether to enter the name directly as credited, or to use the "Credited As" field, use the Credit Lookup tool."  Note that the credit lookup tool is only a tool.  It is not intended to override properly documented actor names.

Some credit listings have fully capitalized names with accents, some without.  Some have mixed case with accents, some without.  So, it's not possible to determine whether the accents were left off due to typeface limitations or due to intent.  We try to keep rules simple even (sometimes) at the cost of infinite "accuracy".  The Credited As field allows actor linking across your collection while maintaining the credit list as shown.

Hope this helps.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
 Last edited: by Ken Cole
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Question Ken...
You said before that the common name is not necessarily meant to be the actual name... but the most commonly credited name.

now you are saying
Quote:
Note that the credit lookup tool is only a tool.  It is not intended to override properly documented actor names.


doesn't that contradict what you said before. Or do you just mean in the case of accents? or what? Sorry but that confused me.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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No Pete it doesn't, it represents an exception to the otherwise Commonly Credited Concept.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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And thank you, Ken if for no other reason than restoiring the intent of the rule.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,281
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The credit lookup tool is intended to cover where there is inherent ambiguity.  If, for instance, marriage causes a name change, there's no need to immediately go back and edit all the other profiles, especially given the average success rate for Hollywood marriages.   It is the tiebreaker, if you will, where the actor's name is in dispute.

Accents/lack of accents in the credit, where they can be shown to be part of the actor's full name, should not fall into this category.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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OK... so if I am understanding you correctly we want the most commonly credited form. With accents as an exception... IF it can be documented. If I am misunderstanding you just let me know. Thanks Ken.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantlmoelleb
Beer Profiler now!
Registered: March 14, 2007
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OK, I am loosing track of this. 

Ignoring "Credited As" but just looking at the actual credit, is this how it should be done:

1) Use the standard rules of the language/country the cast or crew member is from to determine which characters should be lower/upper case (so "Marco von Basten", not "Marco Von Basten"), but do not use these rules to determine how they are converted.

2) Use English rules to do the actual conversion between lower and upper case (so always convert "SS" to "ss", never to "ß").
Regards
Lars
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Hope this helps.


Are you new or do you just have a bad memory?  You know full well this will not help. 

Seriously though, thanks for the clarification.  Just to be sure I am reading you correctly, using our infamous example:

FRANCOIS = Francois
FRANÇOIS = François

and never the twain shall meet...correct?
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
Invelos Software, Inc. RepresentativeKen Cole
Invelos Software
Registered: March 10, 2007
United States Posts: 4,281
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"ß" is a relatively rare case in that there is no capital version.  With instances such as this (if others are found), when there is no upper case equivalent to "ß", and if "ß" is routinely capped as "SS" in the native language, the "ß" character may be used.
Invelos Software, Inc. Representative
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The rules continue: "Use the "Credited As" field where the person's name differs from the credited name."  If an actors name can be documented to include accented characters, the Credited As field should be used.

If I understand this correctly (which is a very big if), what this means to me is that for someone whom I can document is François Smith I would show him as:

          François Smith CREDITED AS Francois Smith

since his documented name is François but he is credited as FRANCOIS and we don't know for sure whether the accent isn't in the capitalized name on purpose or by mistake.

(I couldn't think of a suitable generic French surname so I chose Smith )

This sounds like a reasonable approache to me -- more so than the other way

          Francois Smith CREDITED AS François Smith

which is how I thought people (Skip) wanted to use the Credited As function.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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That is correct  Ken.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
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