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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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RFC: Filter for Jr. |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,005 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Edit. Reading Comprehension helps! OK, I'll address that. Did you already change something? I wanted to reproduce it again. But now it works as it should. | | | 
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| | Registered: March 10, 2007 |  Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes, it's fixed. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Any chance of addressing the capitalization debate we've been mulling over for the last couple of pages of this thread? The basic question being whether an on-screen credit of, say, "LEVAR", should always be entered as "Levar" (at least in the "credited as" field), or could also be entered as "LeVar"? |
| | Registered: June 12, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ken, i think one of today's filters is over-achieving. I just tried submitting a couple profiles (curious about the initials parsing) and it appears all credited as fields are removed from the proposed submission. A good example is Spider-Man [043396-096615] which i submitted without modification and all Credited As fields were missing from my submission. (Which for this UPC is a good thing...but i digress) Might this be related: http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=337590&PageNum=1&x=0#M856941 | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am trying to think of how that would be done, and it seems to me there are too many variables to cope with, we could wind up with MaGly or is it as in some names three letters which could give us MagLy.<shrugs> I can't think of an answer that would work, I think it can ONLY be handled on a name by name basis. Believe it or not computers cannot do everything for you, there are somethings you will just have to cope with on your own.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes, how do we enter Danny's name when we see on screen "DeVITO"? (or "LeVAR" or ""McGOOHAN").
I have my own idea but I will not say it. As long as we have a rule from Ken, I am fine with it. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Any chance of addressing the capitalization debate we've been mulling over for the last couple of pages of this thread? The basic question being whether an on-screen credit of, say, "LEVAR", should always be entered as "Levar" (at least in the "credited as" field), or could also be entered as "LeVar"? If it were me, since nobody can agree on 'standard capitalization rules', I would handle it the same way 'most of us' handle parsing. Start from a set point and allow deviation with documentation. That being said, I don't know that it is worth all the time we are spending on it since the program really doesn't care. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Any chance of addressing the capitalization debate we've been mulling over for the last couple of pages of this thread? The basic question being whether an on-screen credit of, say, "LEVAR", should always be entered as "Levar" (at least in the "credited as" field), or could also be entered as "LeVar"?
If it were me, since nobody can agree on 'standard capitalization rules', I would handle it the same way 'most of us' handle parsing. Start from a set point and allow deviation with documentation.
That being said, I don't know that it is worth all the time we are spending on it since the program really doesn't care. +1 This isn't something that should be automated. The Jr. fiasco, OTOH, is, so thanks for that Ken. I like the double-quote single quote idea too. | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,005 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tweeter: Quote:
Ken, i think one of today's filters is over-achieving.
I just tried submitting a couple profiles (curious about the initials parsing) and it appears all credited as fields are removed from the proposed submission.
A good example is Spider-Man [043396-096615] which i submitted without modification and all Credited As fields were missing from my submission. (Which for this UPC is a good thing...but i digress)
Might this be related: http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=337590&PageNum=1&x=0#M856941 Yes, tweeter is correct. Now all CreditedAs entries are removed on contributions. And not only, when CreditedAs equals the common name. | | |
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| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
If it were me, since nobody can agree on 'standard capitalization rules', I would handle it the same way 'most of us' handle parsing. Start from a set point and allow deviation with documentation. I fully agree with the "start from a set point" principle. I think you might even agree that that basic starting point for DVD Profiler purposes would best be LEVAR = Levar. As for "allow deviation with documentation" - I'm all for that, too. But I feel that the result of that documentation would best be entered in the program as a common name. After all: documentation doesn't alter what is, or is not seen on-screen. That would also seem in line with the other filters Ken applied the past few days: note that we're now even definitely using "credited as" to deal with something seemingly trivial as the lack of a space between initials as well. There too, we don't get to ignore or alter the data when it suits us, but we retain the exact on-screen credit in the "credited as" field. If there's no space on the screen, then there's no space in the "credited as" field. For consistency's sake, I feel the same approach should be applied here: if there's no highlighted (capitalized) letter on the screen, then no highlighted (capitalized) letter should go into the "credited as" field - except the first letter, of course. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | The CreditedAs issue is now fixed. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thank you Ken!
As for the capitalization and other "name stuff", I think we should keep it as simple as possible in the Common Names, yet as accurate as possible in the Credited Names.
The Credited As is what you see on screen. The only "interpretation" that is needed is due to the fact that in DVD Profiler we don't enter ALL CAPS as on screen. Therefore, the Rules tell us to use standard capitalization rules... Only problem, everyone has their own idea of what the standard capitalization rules of names are! I guess it's up to Ken to tell us if he wants DeVito's or Devito's or DeVITO's, when a "DeVITO" credit is on screen.
The Common Name, on the contrary, is just a pointer. Therefore, I don't care much about what it is, as long as #1. there is an easy way to determine it, #2. it links credits of the same person and #3. there is consistency in the database and in contributions. Now we use the most frequent name in CLT results but thanks to the new filters we are going to have some standardized forms regardless of the CLT, in some circumstances. The way I see it, these standardized forms don't need to be the "actual" name, as long as they satisfy #1, 2 and 3. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I fully agree with the "start from a set point" principle. I think you might even agree that that basic starting point for DVD Profiler purposes would best be LEVAR = Levar. As for "allow deviation with documentation" - I'm all for that, too. But I feel that the result of that documentation would best be entered in the program as a common name. After all: documentation doesn't alter what is, or is not seen on-screen. That would also seem in line with the other filters Ken applied the past few days: note that we're now even definitely using "credited as" to deal with something seemingly trivial as the lack of a space between initials as well. There too, we don't get to ignore or alter the data when it suits us, but we retain the exact on-screen credit in the "credited as" field. If there's no space on the screen, then there's no space in the "credited as" field. For consistency's sake, I feel the same approach should be applied here: if there's no highlighted (capitalized) letter on the screen, then no highlighted (capitalized) letter should go into the "credited as" field - except the first letter, of course. Here is where you always lose me...whether or not it is documented, we are already altering the data that is seen on-screen. Entering 'LEVAR BURTON' as 'LeVar Burton (Levar Burton)' does not "retain the exact on-screen credit." The only thing that retains the exact on-screen credit is and entry of 'LeVar Burton (LEVAR BURTON)'. To claim otherwise is to be disingenuous. Having the program convert 'Robert Downey Jr.' into 'Robert Downey, Jr. (Robert Downey Jr.) makes sense as it preserves the lack of a comma...which is actual data the program 'sees'. While I don't agree that it is needed, having the program convert 'J.D. Dawodu' into 'J./D./Dawodu (J.D. Dawodu)' makes some sense since it preserves the look of the credit by removing the space that the program adds. The method that you suggest does not do either of those things. All it does, is preserve two different methods of capitalization, that have nothing to do with the on-screen credit. I am sorry, and this is not meant as a personal attack, but this argument just doesn't hold water.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Tim: I have to ask seriously why LeVar is relevant. I am sure I know what your response will be...it's his name. From my point of view I care that there are credits for Levar and credits for LeVar, for all I know his name is Joe Smth...so what. The other thin I want to know is that Levar=LeVar. If you are so concerned about correct names, the understand that Leroy is not ALWAYS LeRoy, it can be; it can also be Leroy...but credits for a movie program are far more important than "correct" names. For one thing, as we move lower in the Hollywood pecking order determining the real name become harder and harder to impossible. So why is LeVar impoortant...am I going to send him Christmas and Birthday cards...no I don't think so...am I working on his family tree...no, but if I were that would still not be an issue for DVDProfiler. I I simply do not understand the cmplete stuck on correct name and what value it brings to the program...NONE as near as I can tell. LeVar=Levar now that is important. Same argument applies to all the fuss over parsing...it is no moe important than this for exactly the same reasons. We have to have "correct" names why...exactly. I would suggest that this is far more of a personal preference issue than an issue to keep arguing about for the Online. IF you just HAVE to have the "correct", presuming that you can even determine what that might be, which most of the time is going to be highly doubtful and speculative AT BEST, then do it locally. I can see no benefit for the larger community as a whole, it in fact weakens the database Online, because it takes further and further away from the Actual film credits and moves us closer to the FantasyLand that is IMDb. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I I simply do not understand the cmplete stuck on correct name and what value it brings to the program... For me, I simply do not understand the complete stuck on "on screen" names, and what value it brings to the most important feature of the program : correct linking with movies. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | We have LINKING surfeur, IF it done correctly, the problem is that some users are screwing things up. Your problem is that you think you know more than the opeople who produced the film therefore the Screen credit is of no value to you, you probably think you even know the roles better than the filmmakers. I deal with data that is real, NOT data that I think in my magnificence (sarcasm, tic) is the way it SHOULD be. You would get a lot further by not trying to continually swim upstream, it must be very tiring.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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