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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Original Title field for TV series |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | In your eyes it may be off topic... but it isn't in everyone's.
What I do is look at the original post... and look at Hal's suggestion... will Hal's suggestion take care of the problem in the original post? Yes? then it isn't off topic. No? then it is off topic. I really see it as that simple. | | | | Pete |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | The topic is "Original Title field for TV series". Hal's suggestion is "Let's drop the current linking system and the CLT". If that's on-topic, then pretty much everything is on-topic...  Again: have you seen me hijacking hal's thread to talk about my problem? No!! Should I be? I hope not, but since it gets snowed under by all this nonsense here, that is starting to sound pretty attractive. Is that the idea? Should I invade each and every thread remotely associated with cast and crew - thus: on-topic, apparently - with this particular issue? Just say the word - I'll be glad to do that. Say so and I'll start right away. I just don't hope that that's what we've sunk too... And if that's not what you're suggesting, then why is it okay the other way around? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | That is what the name of the thread is... yes. But the question went on into the CLT and making it work. Hal's suggestion does fix that as it makes the CLT unneeded. So it is on topic as it fixes that problem.
And that is the only reason I see this as on topic because reading the entire original post it will fix the problem in the original post so I think it deserves to be mentioned in the thread. Whether I think it is the ideal solution or not (in this case I do as it would solve all CLT problems since a CLT wouldn't be needed) is not the issue. I don't see it being as likely as what you requested but I don't deny it is a fix.
That is the way I personally see it. It may not be how you see it... it may not be how the majority of people see it. But it is the way I see it. Should I not support something that I personally feel is a good idea and feel is on topic? If not... then why don't I have that right?
As for you posting your idea in threads that you feel it would be appropriate I would give it the same consideration as I did Hal's Post. I would read the original post... read your suggestion. If it would do whatever the original post is requesting I would feel it is on topic. If it wouldn't do whatever the original post is requesting then I would feel it is not on topic. Same simple idea... no matter who the poster is. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I think it deserves to be mentioned in the thread. I have no problem with it being mentioned. What I have a problem with is that there hasn't been an on-topic post here for pages on end. Instead, you seem intent on arguing semantics for some reason. Not understanding why, earlier today I even sent you a PM to try and resolve this and save the community a few pages of unproductive bickering, but it went unanswered while the public bickering went on - it seems you wanted to keep this pointless back-and-forth going no matter what... I fail to see why, but it has certainly killed this thread. Too bad, because it was about a serious problem that really deserved a little bit of attention. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | The only reason I have gone on about it is because you kept replying with something I felt needed to be commented on. If you would have let it drop I would have too. But it SEEMS like you think you can make statements and other people's views on that statement is not allowed. You kept going over and over again on how you felt Hal's post wasn't on topic... so I felt I had to go on over and over again on how I felt it was on topic.
If you are going to make a statement on the forums you have to expect people to make statement's with their view as well. All posters has just as much right to do so as you do Tim. | | | | Pete |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
The only reason I have gone on about it is because you kept replying with something I felt needed to be commented on. No surprise there: same here, of course. Quote:
If you would have let it drop I would have too. Again: same here, of course. Though when I suggested that we both drop it in my PM to earlier today, you clearly weren't interested. Good news though: since all this has effectively killed the thread, I'll drop it right now. Happy? Quote:
If you are going to make a statement on the forums you have to expect people to make statement's with their view as well. And I do, of course. I just wish you actually WOULD make a useful statement with your view once in a while, instead of only arguing semantics for pages on end... | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
(...) But nobody is threatening to ignore title from the cover (...)
Nobody?
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
I like it. With that I would like to omit the season indicator not only from the original title field but also from the title field.
And there is the reason for my earlier post. I didn't know that I'm threatening somebody or something. I did just tell my opinion. Yes, IMO the season indicator is not necessarily part of the title. And yes, in databases we often have to standardise some information. We do it already for other things too (features, audio, subtitles, case types, contributable genres, and to some degree studios, edition and even credits) and I would welcome, if we'd do it as well for the season indicator. "Credited as" is a good principle for free form text fields to avoid fights and ping-pong. But when it is possible to standardise the data in such a way that we can represent it with check boxes and popup menus, we should do it IMO. Standardised data is also much more useful for searching and filtering as opposed to as credited data with a lot of similar naming variants. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Well, if we would just dump the current linking system, the CLT system would no longer be needed and we wouldn't have the problem that T!M is referring to.
You guys are ignoring the real problem here! Agreed to some degree. But we still would have a problem with the season indicator for the original title field, because the credited as indicator used in the title field is usually not appropriate for the original title field, when the language of the title and the original title do not match. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
The only reason I have gone on about it is because you kept replying with something I felt needed to be commented on.
No surprise there: same here, of course.
Quote:
If you would have let it drop I would have too.
Again: same here, of course. Though when I suggested that we both drop it in my PM to earlier today, you clearly weren't interested. Good news though: since all this has effectively killed the thread, I'll drop it right now. Happy?
Quote:
If you are going to make a statement on the forums you have to expect people to make statement's with their view as well.
And I do, of course. I just wish you actually WOULD make a useful statement with your view once in a while, instead of only arguing semantics for pages on end... All I can say it seems to be semantics to you... but it is of importance in my eyes. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
(...) But nobody is threatening to ignore title from the cover (...)
Nobody?
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
I like it. With that I would like to omit the season indicator not only from the original title field but also from the title field.
And there is the reason for my earlier post.
I didn't know that I'm threatening somebody or something. I did just tell my opinion.
Yes, IMO the season indicator is not necessarily part of the title. And yes, in databases we often have to standardise some information. We do it already for other things too (features, audio, subtitles, case types, contributable genres, and to some degree studios, edition and even credits) and I would welcome, if we'd do it as well for the season indicator.
"Credited as" is a good principle for free form text fields to avoid fights and ping-pong. But when it is possible to standardise the data in such a way that we can represent it with check boxes and popup menus, we should do it IMO. Standardised data is also much more useful for searching and filtering as opposed to as credited data with a lot of similar naming variants. While I didn't mean the word threatened... as that is the word he used not me. And I wouldn't think of not letting you have your opinion on the matter. In my opinion I value what is on the case more. and I wanted to let that known. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
This thread is not primarily about linking. It is, instead, simply about the inability of the CLT to deal with TV credits, which messes up the CLT numbers beyond belief - not just counting them two or three times, but often literally dozens of times. (...) IMO the thread is not about the CLT at all. Yes, the current system has some bad implications on the CLT. But as said in my previous post, the season indicator in the original title field has other problems as well. We do not have any source for an as credited season indicator for the original title at all. What shall we do about it? 1.) Should we leave the season indicator completely of the original title field without any substitute? I'd like this simple approach and do it for my local database like this. But people complain that this as well has a negative influence to the CLT and the option to list the collection by original title instead of the title in the program. 2.) Should we translate the season indicator listed in the title field into the language of the original title? This opens a completely different kind of problem. How is this done? Do we have a non-ambigous answer? And we would still have problems with the CLT numbers because of different season indicators used for different releases (e.g. "the complete first season" vs. "season 1"). 3.) Should Invelos add a special field for the season indicator? Should this field be standardised? Yes and yes, this would solve all the technical problems. We still could add the as credited season indicator into the title field or, as I would prefer, eliminate it there as well. I would not miss the as credited indicator the same way I do not miss the as credited edition if one of the standard editions fits. 4.) Should we move the as credited season indicator from the title field into a new field and use this field as a season indicator for the original title as well? Yes, we could do this. It would eliminate the need for a translation of this data. But it would not solve the CLT problems and it would leave an ugly language mixture for those who use the feature to list their collection by original title in the program. I would prefer option 3 without the credited as season. Let's call it 3b). | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
(..) For the record, I like the field the way it is, it's the CLT that needs to be fixed. And the CLT numbers can't easily be fixed when the linking by original title does not work. And the linking of titles for TV seasons does not easily work without a standardised season indicator. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
...why is that fine for you, but not hal or anybody else that feels they have an obvious solution to a problem they are having? 
Of course they can do that! And I've never said otherwise. But does it have to be in a thread about a different issue? If that issue is about adding, yet another band aid, to an already broken system, and his solution is a better choice, which in my opinion it is, then my answer is yes. Quote:
Again the very simple question: have you seen me hijacking hal's thread to talk about my problem? No!! Should I be doing that? I certainly don't hope so... So why is it okay the other way around, then? As I said earlier, complaining about off-topic posts, in a thread that is off-topic, seems a bit unreasonable to me. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
3.) Should Invelos add a special field for the season indicator? Should this field be standardised?
Yes and yes, this would solve all the technical problems. We still could add the as credited season indicator into the title field or, as I would prefer, eliminate it there as well. I would not miss the as credited indicator the same way I do not miss the as credited edition if one of the standard editions fits. For me this one would work... but only for the original title field... not the title field. I want that title with season indicator as it is on the cover.... definitely. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
(..) For the record, I like the field the way it is, it's the CLT that needs to be fixed.
And the CLT numbers can't easily be fixed when the linking by original title does not work. And the linking of titles for TV seasons does not easily work without a standardised season indicator. I am 100% against standardized season indicators. The season indicator, just like the title, should match what is on the case/disc. For original title, it should match what was released in the CoO. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
We do not have any source for an as credited season indicator for the original title at all. What shall we do about it? That's not entirely true. We have the release, in the CoO, that we could look at. Isn't that what we do with films, when the original title isn't included on the release being profiled? Or am I missing something obvious here? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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