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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
... but it has to be equally accessible and workable for thousands and thousands of users all around the world - each with his own set of grammer rules firmly imprinted in his head... As long as I know, a database as IMDB's has also to be accessible for thousands and thousands of users all around the world. And 99% of names that I can verify are correctly accented. You refuse to read my proposal for a new rule. I do not ask for users not familiar with a foreign language to learn it. I ask for the right for users who see obvious errors to correct them. This is just sharing their knowledge with others. Just as when we share BY that are difficult to find... | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
That is your point of view. I do not need your "explanation" to judge that adding voluntarily spelling mistakes to a shared internet database is a way to pollute thousands of locals with bad data. You disagree with that analysis, but for me this choice is the worse we can imagine and will remain the worse until Ken changes it. Why are you so conerned with what the online Invelos database contains and what it does to other users local database? You say copying the credits is polluting the database with spelling mistakes. How is copying the spelling mistakes that IMDB has any better? And if we are going to modify these so called spelling mistakes who is going to be the final judge on what is the correct spelling? Invelos has rules on how they want data entered into their database and IMDB I'm sure has rules on how they want their data entered. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Tracer: Quote:
Why are you so conerned with what the online Invelos database contains and what it does to other users local database? What is contribution system made for ? A hobby for contributors, or a way to share with other users useful data? | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | So what is your definition of useful? I'm having a hard time understanding why taking the cast or crew from the actual credits isn't useful. I'm hearing how bad taking the cast and crew from the credits but, I'm not really hearing any real explaination why taking it from another source is any better. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
Why are you so conerned with what the online Invelos database contains and what it does to other users local database?
What is contribution system made for ? A hobby for contributors, or a way to share with other users useful data? Ok, I did a check on 1 name (it is one that I am aware of) Rene Auberjonois (which is actually René Auberjonois) which has 535 titles and 1165 profiles (various locales and languages) as opposed to 6 title and 59 profiles. And I am sure that a majority of these did a strict invariant conversion. This also shows to me, that a majority of the people were using the invariant rule, long before the clarification was made. To me this shows that most people understand the need for simplicity. (by the way, how many of these do you think would actually get changed with a new rule?) Charlie |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,329 |
| | Posted: | | | | I believe Ken understands the need for simplicity as well... Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
DVD Profiler must walk a fine line between enough accuracy to keep one side of the aisle happy while maintaining ease of use and entry to keep the other, generally somewhat silent and large majority happy. My development experience is not trivial, and I've been forced to design systems where one person's concept of accuracy has driven the project into the ground, completely unusable to the end users. I don't plan to make that mistake here. I personally see this as a good example of one of these areas. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
by the way, how many of these do you think would actually get changed with a new rule?)
I have a rather small collection (1200 profiles). Just for them I have about 1300 accented names. For most of them, present CLT gives the correctly accented name winning, just because the 2008 clarification came after 8 years of correct contributions. With my rule change, CLT remains as it is now for most of those names, without the need to open common names threads. Without my change, we have 1300 common names thread to open, to verify exactly what has to be done (most names will change, as I already verified for 200 of them) (that is what I call "simple and not time consuming"  ). | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,848 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
100% of French people who learned in school would say that the diatric are really present in ANDRE or FRANCOIS. I'm actually quite impressed that you're able to correctly pronounce words written in all caps with invisible diacritics when we all know that they're indispensable on the lowercase alphabet. --------------- |
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| Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,848 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
I do not ask for users not familiar with a foreign language to learn it. I ask for the right for users who see obvious errors to correct them. You wish to set up a rule that will: 1) Allow "incorrect" (but per credits) names to be entered by "ignorant" users, and 2) Allow "corrections" to be made by "enlightened" users to profiles they own, and 3) Continue to trash the linking system as half the profiles with "FRANCOIS" will say "Francois" while the other half will say "François" because "educated" people don't own all DVDs. or We could have everyone everywhere enter "Francois" for "FRANCOIS" and "François" for "FRANÇOIS" and not break linking unnecessarily. It's true that spelling may suffer, but that's the fault of the filmmakers, not the profilers. --------------- |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
by the way, how many of these do you think would actually get changed with a new rule?)
I have a rather small collection (1200 profiles). Just for them I have about 1300 accented names. For most of them, present CLT gives the correctly accented name winning, just because the 2008 clarification came after 8 years of correct contributions. With my rule change, CLT remains as it is now for most of those names, without the need to open common names threads. Without my change, we have 1300 common names thread to open, to verify exactly what has to be done (most names will change, as I already verified for 200 of them) (that is what I call "simple and not time consuming" ). Ok 1300 less in France 2000 more in US. Now we have to find out if this name is Americanized, or truly needs to be accented. The common name thead is not a very good argument. Charlie |
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| Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | In my opinion, and I only speak for myself now, name variations of the same person creates data that is quasi-useless to me, as it hampers the linking of actors/crew.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely appreciate all the hard work contributors do to verify the common names, as that somewhat helps improve linking, but it's a bandaid on an open festering wound: CLT results can shift at any given time and it's neigh impossible to keep track of every single profile that has that actor in it. Moreover, as the database keeps growing and more profiles are adding, this will only keep getting more difficult.
The only way to have a locally correctly linking DB is to download the profiles, manually check every single person, adapt the name where needed and lock the profile. In doing so, I also lock myself out of any future contributions to that profile, but that's the only way to make it work: a lot of work locally rendering a profile unsubmissable in the future.
I think there is nothing wrong in admitting there is a problem and that the current linking system is broken. The sooner it is acknowledged and the more people ask Ken for a solution, the better the chances we will one day see a solution. | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | @Taro, I thought we have been begging and pleading for awhile. Color me bad  Charlie |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,329 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree... there is a problem with the current linking system... I have said it... as well as many others has since it was originally introduced. But despite that Ken remains with this system.
But even with that said... that don't mean we all agree that this particular rule change request will help anything. On the contrary... there is those of us that believe it will hurt things when it is looked at as world-wide and not per locality. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Heck, here is a poll. 63 people said they want something better to 8 that think its OK. I know only people that read the forums, but that is pretty decisive, even for us. Charlie |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Another discussion from June 2009 discussing a possible solution. Charlie |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | Personally I think some of these issues could be resolved on a program change versus a database change where the program would treat François the same as Francois.
Either this or Ken could do like what he has done with Jr. where Robert Downey Jr. is automatically entered into the online database as Robert Downey, Jr. So if someone contributed François it is automatically entered into the database as a common name Francois. But, I don't think that would ever happen and I know surfeur51 would never go for this. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. | | | | Last edited: by Tracer |
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