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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Why do members blatantly ignore the contribution rules?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
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United States Posts: 1,244
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As the subject states, does this mean this is a free for all if we don't have to follow the contribution rules?  Unfortunately, too many members just blindly vote yes and too many members contribute how they profile their database regardless to how what the contribution rules actually state.

I'm not saying the contribution rules are perfect, but if you disagree then petition to change the rules.  Now all we have is chaos.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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What else is new?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributor69samael69
Registered: April 1, 2007
Canada Posts: 176
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I think it comes down to lack of staff. "New" profiles get added very quickly, with, probably, little review, as long as a referring UPC/Disk ID is provided for cast/crew. There also aren't as many people contributing as there once was as people have started abandoning physical media, so, perhaps, they let more slide in order to get the entry in to the DB, then others can review and "fix" it later. I know I recently rescanned my entire library and had to make over 200 new submissions, largely due to lack of Canadian UPC entries. 95% of the time the disk IDs were identical to US releases and the only real difference was a bilingual (English/French) cover, making the contributions easy. Still, I'm sure there there things I forgot to change at times, especially when processing that kind of volume, such as media company or the blurb on the back of the box, which is usually the same, but sometimes different in Canada than the US...same goes for rating. In a vast majority of cases, the US release has a more harsh rating than in Canada and I'm sure I forgot to fix it in some cases.

I disagree that the DB is chaos though. Try looking at the DB for Collectorz Movie Collector if you want to experience a real mess. I played with it for a while when it appeared DVDP was never going to receive the 4K updates and it's a disaster.
 Last edited: by 69samael69
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Why do members blatantly ignore the contribution rules?

Well, for one, there doesn't seem to be any penalty. But the main thing is the fact that the DVD Profiler users have turned "interpreting the rules to death" into a true art form, and nothing is ever resolved. As such, it's important to keep in mind that it's become pretty hard to actually identify "blatantly ignoring the contribution rules". People are quick to shout out a phrase like that, but because of those wildly varying rule interpretations, one man's "blatantly ignoring the contribution rules" is often seen as "faithfully following the contribution rules to to letter" by the other party. You may feel someone is breaking the rules, while that person is absolutely convinced that he's actually following the rules - or vice versa. Again, if nothing is ever resolved, if no decision is ever made, then this is the result. There's really no surprise there.

Quote:
if you disagree then petition to change the rules.

If only that actually worked - but it doesn't. The rules haven't even been updated with the necessary stuff to reflect the changes in the last DVD Profiler version, for example (think nested dividers), let alone for anything else. It hasn't happened in years, and there are no signs that this lack of rule updates is about to change anytime soon. Again: nothing is ever resolved. With different parties consistently interpreting the rules in wildly different ways, and nobody around to make a definite decision, this is what we're stuck with.

So if we want the rules to be followed, then the the rules need to be consistently interpreted in exactly the same way by all users, across the various regions and localities. To achieve that, there needs to be an authoritative source making clear decisions whenever these rules are challenged or interpreted in multiple ways, and those decisions should be made swiftly and publicly, by which I mean they should lead to immediate corrections to the contribution rules.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantLowpro
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Consider me part of the problem I guess, because I could care less whether a profile I download abides fully by the contribution rules or not.  I view the ability to download a profile as an initial time saver only.  I've got the physical release right in front of me.  I look over the entire profile I just downloaded regardless checking it for accuracy, updating it from there as I see fit and locking it down.  The end.

The online profile could be removed at that point for all I care.  I don't care what happens to it.  If people want to update a shared online profile for whatever reason, discuss whether a given item abides by the contribution rules or not, discuss how a given contribution rule should be interpreted, changed or enhanced, they can knock themselves out.  I've got better things to spend my energy on.  I'm never going to download the given profile again anyway and don't allow my local profiles to be updated from the shared online database.

I'll point out as well that if a profile hasn't already been contributed I've got no problem at all creating it from scratch.  I do it all the time.  In fact, the shared online database could be taken offline and I would still continue using this program.  It would continue being just as useful to me either way.  Due to how anal many in the community are about what does or doesn't meet the contribution guidelines however, I choose not to make contributions at all.  I'd just assume make the given profile my own locally right out the gate, lock it down and be done with it.  Again, consider me part of the problem I guess.
My DVD/Blu-ray Collection
 Last edited: by Lowpro
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
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Quoting Lowpro:
Quote:
Consider me part of the problem I guess, because I could care less whether a profile I download abides fully by the contribution rules or not.  I view the ability to download a profile as an initial time saver only.  I've got the physical release right in front of me.  I look over the entire profile I just downloaded regardless checking it for accuracy, updating it from there as I see fit and locking it down.  The end.

The online profile could be removed at that point for all I care.  I don't care what happens to it.  If people want to update a shared online profile for whatever reason, discuss whether a given item abides by the contribution rules or not, discuss how a given contribution rule should be interpreted, changed or enhanced, they can knock themselves out.  I've got better things to spend my energy on.  I'm never going to download the given profile again anyway and don't allow my local profiles to be updated from the shared online database.

I'll point out as well that if a profile hasn't already been contributed I've got no problem at all creating it from scratch.  I do it all the time.  In fact, the shared online database could be taken offline and I would still continue using this program.  It would continue being just as useful to me either way.  Due to how anal many in the community are about what does or doesn't meet the contribution guidelines however, I choose not to make contributions at all.  I'd just assume make the given profile my own locally right out the gate, lock it down and be done with it.  Again, consider me part of the problem I guess.


That is an unfortunate view Lowpro; how did you get to that point?

I'm not sure how many titles you own, but at least for me, the contributions to the online database are helpful as I wouldn't have the time to catalog every single title I own.  And there in lies the challenge.  I see it as a give and take; that is, I contribute some, and I receive contributions from others.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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I don't think it is that big a deal.

In the vast majority of cases the contribution follow the rules. If there's a problem, voting "no" or sending the contributor a message usually takes care of the problem.

Then there are those "grey areas" which always seem to pop up. The bottom line is there will NEVER be a way to address these issues to everyone's satisfaction. Nor will there ever be rules written to cover every situation.

Ken addressed that stating: "One-off rulings on individual titles are a waste of time - there is always a new twist available to cast a slightly different shade of gray, and users cannot be expected to scour the forums on a title-by-title basis.  Similarly, refining and complicating the rules to satisfactorily contain each of these new variants is an exercise in futility.

Local databases can support an infinite variety of variants for title and other fields, and the local locks are available to make those changes permanent.  With this in mind, hopefully the supporters on both sides of this and other similar debates can agree that the direction of a decision here is less important that the fact of a decision.  Consistency for submission to the online is possible and what we should shoot for.  Agreement on how it "should be" is neither possible nor (thankfully) necessary."

So, like I said, it really isn't that big a deal.
 Last edited: by Kathy
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
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It was refreshing to read that excerpt Kathy. I always found Ken to be a thoughtful, fair and creative leader. I sure hope that guy is OK.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPaul Tilburgs
Registered: March 14, 2007
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I was just starting to contribute profiles again as I have some that may be somewhat uncommon, but seeing that they get rejected out of hand completely because I honestly state that I get some crew/cast information from wikipedia (why do you assume everything there is incorrect and everything here is correct? I have offered multiple corrections on incorrect profiles here, so why trust info here?...) means I will stop contributing again.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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Very simple: the Contribution Rules tell us to take cast and crew information from the film credits. Only role names, if missing in the film credits, can be taken from elsewhere.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPaul Tilburgs
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
Very simple: the Contribution Rules tell us to take cast and crew information from the film credits. Only role names, if missing in the film credits, can be taken from elsewhere.


My point is that I could have blatantly lied and said I got the cast and credit info from the credits (which sometimes are also incorrect, by the way) and you would be none the wiser and the contribution would be approved. So this "quality check" does not help in getting better or correct profiles. And I would even not mind if just the cast and credit info was rejected, as the rest of the profile obviously is taken from the package and disc itself, but no, everything is rejected in one fell swoop. That, combined with the title of this very thread seems to indicate that simple quick contributions of profiles missing from this database are not appreciated, so I will stop making them.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAlunH
Registered: February 19, 2012
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Paul - the thing is, you're ignoring the rules.  The cast/crew info can only be taken from the credits of the film (or TV series, etc) itself.  That's it.  You can't just copy it from Wikipedia because it's more convenient than putting a bit of effort in.

I contribute quite a bit.  I have yet to find a single entry on the IMDb which is accurate to the credits I'm looking at.  Wikipedia is even worse.  IMDb's bad, but Wikipedia's a joke.  I'd rather you didn't bother at all than have you contributing inaccurate information.

Others may disagree, of course, and that's their right.  But complaining that that your contributions aren't welcome so you'll stop making them is plain silly.  Your contributions aren't welcome because they're wrong.

And it's alright saying that the cast and crew info may be wrong, but everything else is okay so it should be accepted.  How does anyone know it's right?  You've already admitted that your cast and crew info is sourced elsewhere.  Why should anything else you contribute be any different?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Paul Tilburgs:
Quote:

And I would even not mind if just the cast and credit info was rejected, as the rest of the profile obviously is taken from the package and disc itself, but no, everything is rejected in one fell swoop.


That's why I think it would be a great addition to the voting page if we could vote yes or no on specific parts of an update.

It makes no sense to reject an entire profile update just because something is wrong in another section. So if the cast/crew is an excellent update but the overview is wrong it doesn't make any sense to vote NO on the entire thing (yeah notes are good and all, but things do fall through the cracks) and have the entire cast/crew rejected in full.

One wonders how many people have contributed to only have their hard work rejected in full because of a few errors in other fields.

This would certainly allow for more accurate voting but would allow good portions of an update to be approved and passed on to other users to download.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPaul Tilburgs
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting AlunH:
Quote:
Paul - the thing is, you're ignoring the rules.  The cast/crew info can only be taken from the credits of the film (or TV series, etc) itself.  That's it.  You can't just copy it from Wikipedia because it's more convenient than putting a bit of effort in.

I contribute quite a bit.  I have yet to find a single entry on the IMDb which is accurate to the credits I'm looking at.  Wikipedia is even worse.  IMDb's bad, but Wikipedia's a joke.  I'd rather you didn't bother at all than have you contributing inaccurate information.

Others may disagree, of course, and that's their right.  But complaining that that your contributions aren't welcome so you'll stop making them is plain silly.  Your contributions aren't welcome because they're wrong.

And it's alright saying that the cast and crew info may be wrong, but everything else is okay so it should be accepted.  How does anyone know it's right?  You've already admitted that your cast and crew info is sourced elsewhere.  Why should anything else you contribute be any different?


Hi Alun,

I concede some of your points. However, as you should know if you contribute quite a bit, is that there are 2 fields where you are asked to provide the source of the data, only one of the 2 is for the cast and crew (or at least that is how it comes across to me). My "irregular" contributions clearly stated in the general part that the source of the info is the DVD or Blu-Ray or packaging itself... is that also not good enough?

Anyway, bearing in mind what you and others have said, I have resubmitted my profile for "Die Elenden" (les misérables, 1958) leaving out the cast and crew data (I hope), as I unfortunately don't have the time to get that data from the credits itself. I hope that is acceptable? If yes, I will continue providing such contributions.

Thanks,
Paul.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAlunH
Registered: February 19, 2012
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Hi Paul

I'm with both you and Cubby - it should be possible to reject some aspects of an update, and let others go through (particularly if you can see that something has been accidentally keyed incorrectly).

Sorry if I sounded confrontational.  I just find it frustrating when people don't use the actual credits for a cast.  I'd rather it was left blank than copied from somewhere else - at least then I know which films need adding correctly.  Other than that, any update you keyed (particularly if you're stating the source of your information) would be welcome and appreciated.

Thanks,
Alun.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDeckard99
No choice, huh?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Sure, as long as it is accurate who should mind you contributing such profiles? Keep 'em coming.
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