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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
Audio, subtitles, and features on dual format releases
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
Registered: March 24, 2007
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When you have a dual format release, whether Blu-ray and DVD or 4K Ultra HD and Blu-ray, and the primary format has different audio tracks, subtitles, and features than the other disc, does the main profile reflect the package or the disc?

There are many 4K Ultra HD releases where most of the features are on the Blu-ray disc and, very often, the Blu-ray disc contains more/different audio tracks and subtitles.

It makes sense to me for the main profile to reflect the information on the primary format and then have a child profile for the other disc containing the information specific to that disc. Other features, such as a reversible sleeve, booklet, or poster, can be listed with the primary format.

Opinions and thoughts?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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This is covered by the contribution rules so there is no need for a poll.
First registered: February 15, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
Registered: March 24, 2007
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Quoting Nexus the Sixth:
Quote:
This is covered by the contribution rules so there is no need for a poll.

Which part? A box set specifically contains more than one film, so that doesn't cover dual format releases of a single film.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Registered: May 26, 2007
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Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
Quoting Nexus the Sixth:
Quote:
This is covered by the contribution rules so there is no need for a poll.

Which part? A box set specifically contains more than one film, so that doesn't cover dual format releases of a single film.


It's the last paragraph of the box set section (underlining from me):
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked. A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile. However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile.


Extrapolate that for 4K/Blu-ray combos with the 4K as the main profile, and the blu-ray in the bonus profile slot.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
Registered: March 24, 2007
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Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
It's the last paragraph of the box set section (underlining from me):
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked. A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile. However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile.


Extrapolate that for 4K/Blu-ray combos with the 4K as the main profile, and the blu-ray in the bonus profile slot.

Thanks.

I take from that it means that a 4K disc with no extra features should have a profile reflecting that, with all the features listed on the Blu-ray child profile, or have I misread it?
 Last edited: by Nosferatu
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
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Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
Extrapolate that for 4K/Blu-ray combos with the 4K as the main profile, and the blu-ray in the bonus profile slot.

Thanks.

I take from that it means that a 4K disc with no extra features should have a profile reflecting that, with all the features listed on the Blu-ray child profile, or have I misread it?

I think you misread that.  The discs IDs for a lower format are optional and features of the release should be included in the main profile as it represents the release.  Things like audio tracks, subtitles, running time have always been taken from the highest format.  Keep in mind you also include the disc IDs for all discs in this main profile unless it's a boxset.
 Last edited: by rdodolak
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
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Posts: 327
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Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote:
It's the last paragraph of the box set section (underlining from me):
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked. A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile. However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile.


Extrapolate that for 4K/Blu-ray combos with the 4K as the main profile, and the blu-ray in the bonus profile slot.

Thanks.

I take from that it means that a 4K disc with no extra features should have a profile reflecting that, with all the features listed on the Blu-ray child profile, or have I misread it?


Yes as indicated by the rules
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
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Quoting rdodolak:
Quote:
Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
Extrapolate that for 4K/Blu-ray combos with the 4K as the main profile, and the blu-ray in the bonus profile slot.

Thanks.

I take from that it means that a 4K disc with no extra features should have a profile reflecting that, with all the features listed on the Blu-ray child profile, or have I misread it?


I think you misread that.  The discs IDs for a lower format are optional and features of the release should be included in the main profile as it represents the release.  Things like audio tracks, subtitles, running time have always been taken from the highest format.  Keep in mind you also include the disc IDs for all discs in this main profile unless it's a boxset.

Just because the child profile is optional, it does not mean that the features from the lower format should be on the main profile.  It doesn't say that anywhere in the rules; in fact, it says the opposite.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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I always thought the Combo Set rules were independent of the Box Set rules (even though they appear on the same page in the rules), so I didn't vote as none of the current options appear to be applicable.

This topic was discussed recently here, and whilst I agree that the audio, subtitles and features on each main feature disc in a combo set are kept separate, it is as per the combo set rules, not the box set rules.

This is my understanding of how the Combo set rules impacts on the configuration:
• In a 4K/Blu-ray combo set, the primary profile (parent) is configured as per standard contribution rules for the 4K main feature disc. If there is a bonus material only disc in the package then those features are added to the parent (4K) profile, as per normal 2-disc profile.

• The combo set rule covers profiling the set or profiling the main media type only:
==>  At the very minimum, you can add a 4K only profile, that is an incomplete combo set.
==>  When you add the child Blu-ray to the 4K parent, it then becomes the complete combo set.

• The child Blu-ray main feature disc is configured as per standard contribution rules, and MAY be added to the box set contents of the 4K parent. An optional child profile means you don't have to add a child profile, it doesn't mean that the main feature on that disc is non-existent.

If that child disc was released in its own UPC keep case, or Box set, it would be considered a bona-fide main feature profile. Combining that disc with a 4K disc in a single keep case doesn't change its main feature status.

• The rule for features is titled "Disc Features", which means any features on a disc that includes a main feature pertain to the main feature on that same disc.

• Excluding bonus feature films, there is no rule that permits the copying of features from one main feature disc to another main feature disc.

Checking the Blu-ray media type allows the addition of a child Blu-ray discID to the 4K box set contents. If the Blu-ray media type was not checked, you would not be allowed (approved) to add the child Blu-ray profile.

• There should be only one main feature DiscID in the 4K profile and that is the 4K DiscID. The Blu-ray DiscID should be removed from the 4K profile after adding the child Blu-ray profile.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting ObiKen:
Quote:
There should be only one main feature DiscID in the 4K profile and that is the 4K DiscID. The Blu-ray DiscID should be removed from the 4K profile after adding the child Blu-ray profile.

It should definitely not be removed, no. Whether someone bothered to make an (optional!) child profile or not doesn't matter at all - the main profile is a profile for the entire combo set, not for just one disc of the combo set.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
the main profile is a profile for the entire combo set, not for just one disc of the combo set.


Where in the rules does it state this?
 Last edited: by primetime21
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorprimetime21
Registered: October 4, 2008
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This has been discussed time and time again.  I feel the rules are pretty clear on this, or at a minimum they don't address what some people claim, which is that features from a lower level profile belong on the main profile.  I think it is a pretty big leap of faith to say because the child profile is optional that definitely means their features belong on the main profile.  We have to go with what we have which states you use the details from the main profile only.  And remember, you can always add them locally if you wish.

With that being said, I recognize this is highly divisive topic, so I have chosen the approach on if someone originally includes the lower level features on the main profile, I don't vote to remove them; I just don't accept the contribution for my collection.  I would hope the same would be done in the opposite scenario.  Recently someone did contribute these changes that were not how the profile was originally set up--I undid these contributions and they were approved.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributormreeder50
I was outta bullets
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting primetime21:
Quote:
This has been discussed time and time again.  I feel the rules are pretty clear on this, or at a minimum they don't address what some people claim, which is that features from a lower level profile belong on the main profile.  I think it is a pretty big leap of faith to say because the child profile is optional that definitely means their features belong on the main profile.  We have to go with what we have which states you use the details from the main profile only.  And remember, you can always add them locally if you wish.

With that being said, I recognize this is highly divisive topic, so I have chosen the approach on if someone originally includes the lower level features on the main profile, I don't vote to remove them; I just don't accept the contribution for my collection.  I would hope the same would be done in the opposite scenario.  Recently someone did contribute these changes that were not how the profile was originally set up--I undid these contributions and they were approved.

I agree with primetime21.

I hate the fact that if you want to know what disc to put in to find the features, you have to put the 4K in and check it. If it's not there you have to take it out and put the other one or 2 in depending on how many it has.
Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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Quoting primetime21:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
the main profile is a profile for the entire combo set, not for just one disc of the combo set.


Where in the rules does it state this?

With regards to the rules, the statement is baseless.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMallrat
Registered: December 13, 2008
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I wasn't aware of any previous debate over whether features on the blu-ray disc should be added to the main profile or not. All my profiles were set up this way when I added the discs to my collection. Recently I purchased a few US discs that were set up differently and edited and contributed the profiles according to what I thought was the correct way to do things based on hundreds of other 4K combos that I own and that were practically all profiled that way.

There were 3 contributions. One had 2 no-votes and 3 yes-votes which must have been a major flag to the guys that decide over contributions. It was accepted despite the No-votes. The other 2 contributions were voted 16 Yes to 1 No and 11 Yes to 1 No. They were also accepted. These contributions are the ones that Primetime21 refers to. These changes have now been reverted which is fine obviously. As Primetime21 has stated, it is easy enough to lock them. I will refrain from contributing this particular change since it is now obvious that opinions vary despite the rules seeming perfectly clear to some and less so or differently interpreted to others. The approverment process seems to be pretty arbitrary though seeing the outcome of approving 3 contributions despite NO-votes (so second level process) and then approving the exact opposite contributions a week later. Again with NO-votes so also second level reviewing. So that the reversals were accepted in itself doesn't mean all that much. Anyway all is good, I contribute for fun and to pay a bit back for everyone elses work, not because I want the online database to be an exact copy of my own profiles.

Mreeder, Just out of curiousity: Why would you have to put the 4K disc in? If you check your database when planning to watch extra features surely you would then just check your child-profile to see the available features on that disc? 

Anyway the reason that I am posting on this topic is because I have now received a NO-vote to a contribution in which I remove audio tracks that are NOT on the 4K disc but that are on the Blu-ray. The NO-vote refers to this thread. It is quite possible that this topic was started because of my contribution. I am now genuinely confused. Isn't the outcome of this discussion to NOT add characteristics of the secondary disc tot the primary disc? Or am I reading this completely wrong?
 Last edited: by Mallrat
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMallrat
Registered: December 13, 2008
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sorry, double posted
 Last edited: by Mallrat
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