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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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(former) Studios Reference Thread |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting sugarjoe: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Because at the request of some users we have begun moving in the direction of On Screen data (As Credited)...not entirely and the changeover will be slow, due to the simple fact that users would immediately begin clamnmoring for another Alias list for Studios. This one should remain AS CREDITED, as is true with MOST Production studios since they are generally not well identified and have a small ctalog of film. The only area we don't use As Credited and NEVER have is for the MAJOR film studios, again simply to avoid the clamor for an Alias list, right now, particularly since the other Alias doesn't function all that well.
Skip
This is the first time I hear this. It is in clear contradiction to the rules.
Who are these users? When was that request made? Who has decided on that request? The second Intervocative rules committee, which produced a draft revision of the current rules, unanimously (except for Skip) recommended an 'as credited' approach to studios and to drop this studios thread. Here are the poll results from our rules forum:  The draft that Skip presented to Ken did not include this recommendation. The draft revision was submitted to Ken in March 2006 but was never implemented. A March 2007 Invelos rules committee poll had these results:  No changes to the rules for Studios have been made by Invelos and there's no indication that they will make any changes. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
I'll repeat that you can squirm and argue all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that your are dead wrong. Your endlessly repeated "involvement" doesn't impress me at all when your personal preference is in direct conflict with the actual rules. You can keep referring to your "involvement" until you're blue in the face - and you probably will - but in the end it's about what's actually in the rules. Your preferences as they were then, or as they are now, have nothing to do with it. In the interest of fairness, I feel I must point out that 'as credited' for studios is not Skip's personal preference. If it were, he never would have made the original studio thread at IVS. When I first brought this up in the rules forum, Skip was the most vocal opponent of the suggestion. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
You also have no basis for knowledge, not even third hand, let alone first hand.  But since you seem to have become Ken's spokesman of late. Or think you have.
Skip You need to stop the lies, Skip. Unless you think this ISN'T Ken's program and site anymore? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting sugarjoe:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Because at the request of some users we have begun moving in the direction of On Screen data (As Credited)...not entirely and the changeover will be slow, due to the simple fact that users would immediately begin clamnmoring for another Alias list for Studios. This one should remain AS CREDITED, as is true with MOST Production studios since they are generally not well identified and have a small ctalog of film. The only area we don't use As Credited and NEVER have is for the MAJOR film studios, again simply to avoid the clamor for an Alias list, right now, particularly since the other Alias doesn't function all that well.
Skip
This is the first time I hear this. It is in clear contradiction to the rules.
Who are these users? When was that request made? Who has decided on that request?
The second Intervocative rules committee, which produced a draft revision of the current rules, unanimously (except for Skip) recommended an 'as credited' approach to studios and to drop this studios thread. Here are the poll results from our rules forum:
The draft that Skip presented to Ken did not include this recommendation. The draft revision was submitted to Ken in March 2006 but was never implemented.
A March 2007 Invelos rules committee poll had these results:
No changes to the rules for Studios have been made by Invelos and there's no indication that they will make any changes. James: if you are going to talk about this, at least do it ACURATELY. Don' t expalin only half of of it. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
I'll repeat that you can squirm and argue all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that your are dead wrong. Your endlessly repeated "involvement" doesn't impress me at all when your personal preference is in direct conflict with the actual rules. You can keep referring to your "involvement" until you're blue in the face - and you probably will - but in the end it's about what's actually in the rules. Your preferences as they were then, or as they are now, have nothing to do with it.
In the interest of fairness, I feel I must point out that 'as credited' for studios is not Skip's personal preference. If it were, he never would have made the original studio thread at IVS. When I first brought this up in the rules forum, Skip was the most vocal opponent of the suggestion. Also half-truth, Unicus and notr entirely correct on top of that. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Regardless of what's been discussed in the rules forum, we don't follow the results of polls - simple as that.
We follow the rules and the rules say we use the proper name of the company, not "as credited" until the rules are changed. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 374 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Regardless of what's been discussed in the rules forum, we don't follow the results of polls - simple as that.
We follow the rules and the rules say we use the proper name of the company, not "as credited" until the rules are changed. It can't be said clearer.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
James: if you are going to talk about this, at least do it ACURATELY. Don' t expalin only half of of it. I'm only talking about it because you have alluded to an 'as credited' movement and many people (those not intimately involved in the two polls I quoted) won't have any idea what you are talking about. I answered sugarjoe's questions in order to provide some context for your comments. Yes, we could go on for pages detailing our positions and who said what to whom, but none of it matters. The rules have never changed since the inception of this list; therefore, whatever movement in the direction of 'as credited' that you speak of is irrelevant. Quoting sugarjoe: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Regardless of what's been discussed in the rules forum, we don't follow the results of polls - simple as that.
We follow the rules and the rules say we use the proper name of the company, not "as credited" until the rules are changed.
It can't be said clearer. I agree. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Also half-truth, Unicus and notr entirely correct on top of that.
Skip You are correct, I did present the 'Reader's Digest' version. The point I was trying to make was that 'as credited' wasn't your personal preference. I didn't want that point lost in all the details. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Regardless of what's been discussed in the rules forum, we don't follow the results of polls - simple as that.
We follow the rules and the rules say we use the proper name of the company, not "as credited" until the rules are changed. Actually, the rules don't say that. The rules say, "There is further information about correct names for studios, and the opportunity to ask questions if unsure, in the Contributions forum." While the rule does say that, "there is further information about correct names for studios," it never says we have to enter them. I know what the argument is going to be, I have heard it several times, but it won't change the fact that the rule doesn't say what you said it does...reason #1 for why I don't like this rule. Reason #2 is that, as written, the rule is non-binding. Nobody has to come to the forums and look at the studio list. They can come, if they are unsure and want to ask questions, but they don't have to. How can you enforce a rule that tells people they don't have to follow it? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Regardless of what's been discussed in the rules forum, we don't follow the results of polls - simple as that.
We follow the rules and the rules say we use the proper name of the company, not "as credited" until the rules are changed.
Actually, the rules don't say that. The rules say, "There is further information about correct names for studios, and the opportunity to ask questions if unsure, in the Contributions forum."
While the rule does say that, "there is further information about correct names for studios," it never says we have to enter them. I know what the argument is going to be, I have heard it several times, but it won't change the fact that the rule doesn't say what you said it does...reason #1 for why I don't like this rule.
Reason #2 is that, as written, the rule is non-binding. Nobody has to come to the forums and look at the studio list. They can come, if they are unsure and want to ask questions, but they don't have to. How can you enforce a rule that tells people they don't have to follow it? In context, the rules do say to enter correct names. Sure, you can say that the sentence is not a directive, and we're not required to enter correct names, but taking that section of the rules as a whole, including the fact that they link to this thread which Invelos keeps as a sticky and in which Ken has posted comments such as "I can add filters to the acceptance process that automatically convert incorrect names into correct names. Thoughts?" (page 1) I think it's pretty clear how we are to make the rule work. If someone were to say in their contribution notes that they were entering an incorrect studio name because there is no rule which binds them to enter correct data, I would vote no and I would anticipate that Invelos would follow through with a decline. I don't maintain this thread to satisfy user curiousity but rather to facilitate profile contributions. We can academically give you a win for determining that it's non-binding, but I don't see the point. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
In context, the rules do say to enter correct names. Sure, you can say that the sentence is not a directive, and we're not required to enter correct names, but taking that section of the rules as a whole, including the fact that they link to this thread which Invelos keeps as a sticky and in which Ken has posted comments such as "I can add filters to the acceptance process that automatically convert incorrect names into correct names. Thoughts?" (page 1) I think it's pretty clear how we are to make the rule work. As I said, I have heard all this before, but that isn't what it says. It is how you, the general 'you', have chosen to interpret it. I am not saying it is the wrong interpretation, just that it isn't what the rule actually says. You know me, that's what I do.  Btw, there is no link to this thread in the rules. Hasn't been since the move from IVS. Quote:
If someone were to say in their contribution notes that they were entering an incorrect studio name because there is no rule which binds them to enter correct data, I would vote no and I would anticipate that Invelos would follow through with a decline. You know as well as I do that nobody is going to say that. Most, from what I have seen, will take the data from the credits, exactly as they are written in the credits, and will say as much. Those contributions, regardless of the 'no' votes, will probably get accepted. Quote:
I don't maintain this thread to satisfy user curiousity but rather to facilitate profile contributions. We can academically give you a win for determining that it's non-binding, but I don't see the point. It isn't a win, it is a hole in the rules. That is the point.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is no directive in the Rules that tells you that you must come to this thread to determine what the correct name is before contributing. Such a directive would be pointless, since this thread could never contain every possibility universally. Without such a directive, this section of the Rule is worthless: Quoting The Rules: Quote:
There is further information about correct names for studios, and the opportunity to ask questions if unsure, in the Contributions forum. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've sent Ken a PM asking him to either (1) unsticky this thread and remove reference to it from the rules or (2) make the rule a directive.
I see no point in maintaining this information otherwise. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
I've sent Ken a PM asking him to either (1) unsticky this thread and remove reference to it from the rules or (2) make the rule a directive.
I see no point in maintaining this information otherwise. Oh goody a return to the days Disney/Buena Vista entries. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
I've sent Ken a PM asking him to either (1) unsticky this thread and remove reference to it from the rules or (2) make the rule a directive.
I see no point in maintaining this information otherwise.
Oh goody a return to the days Disney/Buena Vista entries.
Skip Apparently that is the current state of affairs since one is not required to enter correct studio names. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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